Autor Wątek: Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions  (Przeczytany 13928 razy)

0 użytkowników i 1 Gość przegląda ten wątek.

Offline Harleqin

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 10:36:48 am »
Hi there,

I am hoping you can help explain something to me. Jacek, the Friendly Sausage, has already tried, but I'm still looking a bit like this even after hearing his explanation:  :shock:

As you might know telling what magic items the various units/characters have before a battle is pretty uncommon. In fact, the only places where I've really heard about it is here in Poland and in some tournaments in the USA and Australia. For a Dane like me it is something completely alien and, dare I say, disgusting.

I would simply like to know this.... WHY?

I know you have some kind of Warhammer Council which is also unique to Poland. I see the idea in that. Not that I agree completely with it, but I see the reason. I don't see it with the open lists. For me it removes some of the fun and the tactical aspects which is a Bad ThingTM.

Also, I've heard that I might be docked or even FORCED to reveal my item combinations in tournaments. Just the threat of that is enough to make me stay away from some and focus on those where it won't be required.

So... please... enlighten me about why it is such a necessity  :)
aluje, nie mowie po polsku.

Offline Marcin Galoch

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 10:58:02 am »
Too much polish players can't make a roster without errors.
So, you can find them before a battle, not after it :)
ttp://www.earthshaker.homepages.pl/download.php

Offline Niedziel

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 11:03:49 am »
Ok, maybe i can try:)

For some players in Poland Warhammer is often not a hobby, or even a sport but somekind of WAR:).
People are cheating each other, laying about number of Dispell Scroll's, numer of wounds witch their Lords suffers, etc.
And the easiest way to stop this cheaters is to play with "open" rosters.
Second one thing can happend:
-You play fourth battle with an unknown opponent, you know his roster quite good, becouse one of your friend played with him already, and he doesn't know yours .

On tournaments very rarely play with "hidden" rosters, and i've nerev met with situation that player doesn't agreed to show his roster.

And with that Warhammer Council? I don't understand:( what You are talkng about:).

I've got hope that You move throught my english and understand something:)
And by the way we will be happy if we colud invite You to the nearest tournament in Krakow. If you are interested then write on prv.
greetings
Prawdziwy Legionista nigdy nie ma kaca!
Prawdziwy Legionista budzi sie pijany!
Je sniadanie i oglada TeleEkspres!

Offline Gotrek

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 11:04:09 am »
Bacause the players you have already played with can tell their friends what you have got in your army and so in your next battle you could face a situation, that you do not know what your opponent has in his army, but he knows all about your army... :? That's why in some tournaments the first (and only the first!) battle in played with urevealed rosters.
lach Baal Quich!!

TAK! - zasadom szarżowania na skirmish po prostej :)

Dawno dawno temu, aby zobaczyć pupe dziewczyny trzeba było rozchylić bielizne.
Teraz aby zobaczyc bielizne trzeba rozchylić pupe...

Offline szafa

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 11:06:26 am »
and next problem is that rosters can be secret only in first battle, after it someone who have more friends on tournament can easily scout his opponent roster jus t asking his pal.
open rosters disalows these practics.
url=http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdc0x5dX1N4][/url]

Barbarossa

  • Gość
Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 11:20:23 am »
It's mandatory on almost all tournaments to reveal your roster to your opponent prior to the battle. The original implementation of this rule predates my involvement with WHFB tourneys, but the bottom line seems to be that (some) people cheat. It is just easy and tempting to the less upright members of the community to claim that their mage has 2 dispel scrolls on one occasion, and a power familiar or some bound spell on another. Likewise, if you have two similar units on the roster, one with, say, the war banner and the other with a banner that makes you immune to psychology, you could be tempted to "place" these banners during the battle as you see fit. Same with fanatics (oooh, it's this unit that I had the 3 fanatics and the shaman with mad cap mushrooms in) and like sneakiness.

The second reason is to give everyone an equal opportunity. Since I, for example, am rather well known to other tourney participants here, it would be quite easy for me to go around after the first, second or third battle, chat with my friends and buddies from clubs/tourneys and find out what army I'm facing - in detail. Truth to be told, I'm a curious and impatient person when it comes to battles and it would be extremely hard for me to resist the temptation to gather intelligence in this manner.

Someone who doesn't want - or can't - run around the room and be inquisitive for whatever reason (shyness, high moral standards, new to the hobby and doesn't know anyone, etc.) has a distinct disadvantage, as I would know that he has, say, 2 scrolls and the ring of hotek and would be able to use this info to my advantage.

The opposite side of the coin is that some items are clearly useless unless your opponent doesn't know you have them. In my view, we chose the lesser of two evils, and I'm really curious as how you deal with players who are a bit unscrupulous and "forget" that this time they've taken the war banner and not the banner of doom on their Grave Guard - or somesuch.

Offline Nosferatu

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 11:42:27 am »
i'm not sure if it still exists  but few years ago there was a "warm up period" on UK GTs  - there the player had to present his rooster to his opponent.


Once upon a time I wanted to do a secret rooster tournament. But the participants said I makes no sens because they will remember what field other players playing on the tables next to them, they will ask what fields his opponent their friends who played with him before, and if they finish their battles before the end they usually go to watch another battles.

So as you see it's rather diffucult to keep a rooster in secret.

And the posts about some players with wrong roosters, cheating, forgetting or "exchanging" are true.
ajac na uwadze, ze ewentualna krytyka moze byc, tak musimy zrobic, zeby tej krytyki
nie bylo, tylko aplauz i zaakceptowanie...

Offline Harleqin

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:11:35 pm »
So, there are two major reasons for this. To counteract cheaters and because it would be known anyway.

Hmm.

I see the point about the cheaters, but still. If it was mandatory to hand out a complete roster to your opponent after the battle then it shouldn't be a problem. Same with units. Make sure that they can be told apart with regimental marking and many problems could be solved. And yeah... it won't really work with skirmishers or unit without standards.

Even so, taking a hardline stance against cheaters should go a long way. Automatic disqualification and banning from all tournaments for a year or so should have the right effect.

On the second part, then yes. However, for one such as me who only know a few people at a tournament it is not really enough for me to gain any kind of knowledge from. Especially since I usually prefer the bigger tournaments. If there are 50+ players, then the chances aren't that big that I'll run into anyone that one of my friends have played. And even if I do then I'll have to remember what he has told me, remember it right, still focus on the game and, not least, find the time to get this kind of intelligence report.

*sigh*

I suppose I'll have to go to the UK GT or do as you do. I don't like it though. It weakens my Empire. Knowing whether or not I have the Speculum and where is a very, very important piece of info. Maybe I should just get a Chaos army.  :(

Still, I appreciate the replies.
aluje, nie mowie po polsku.

Offline Niedziel

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:29:48 pm »
And what do You mean with "Warhammer Council"??:)
Prawdziwy Legionista nigdy nie ma kaca!
Prawdziwy Legionista budzi sie pijany!
Je sniadanie i oglada TeleEkspres!

Jankiel

  • Gość
Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:37:07 pm »
Cytuj
f there are 50+ players, then the chances aren't that big that I'll run into anyone that one of my friends have played

Usually we play on tournaments with 80+ players and we still know each other. Maybe we are not friends, but we know name, army, city etc. so there is no problem in asking someone about our next opponent.

JJ

  • Gość
Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:38:36 pm »
Cytat: "Lukasz"
And what do You mean with "Warhammer Council"??:)


Lista Ligowa :roll:

Don't worry Harleqin, your Friendly Sausages will organize a Secret rosters Tourney. Lukasz has promised, he'll be there, so you can go together. And you'll have 3 secret rosters to chose from. The date is not fixed yet. We'll call that "TNT - The Danish System" :D

Offline Harleqin

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:42:52 pm »
Cytat: "JaceK Jedynak"

Don't worry Harleqin, your Friendly Sausages will organize a Secret rosters Tourney. Lukasz has promised, he'll be there, so you can go together. And you'll have 3 secret rosters to chose from. The date is not fixed yet. We'll call that "TNT - The Danish System" :D


I'd better speed up my painting then. I am trying so hard to paint, but I need a deadline for motivation. Right now I'm just painting flaggies because I like the models.

That tournament... will the Arch Lector be allowed?

On another slightly linked matter. The points sizes here. I've noticed a lot of tournaments with strange sizes like 666, 1200 or 800. Why is that? Is it to give player with less big armies a chance to come and play or is there some other obscure reason?  :p

Edit: Who is Lukasz?  :o
aluje, nie mowie po polsku.

Offline Niedziel

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:55:12 pm »
Points are so small for few reasons:
1) young players with small armies.
2) to make some difference in tournament life:) we've got at leat one tournament in each big city per moth.
3)pairs tournaments witch are  very popular on the north:P
But personally i don't like so small points;)

And who i am?!
I'm the most fearfull player in Poland!!
I'm a person witch nerev lost any match!!
I'm a Karak A Krak Rik!
I'm one of the Oldest Slann's!
I'm th CHOSEN ONE:)!!
And truly i'am player form krakow:)
Prawdziwy Legionista nigdy nie ma kaca!
Prawdziwy Legionista budzi sie pijany!
Je sniadanie i oglada TeleEkspres!

JJ

  • Gość
Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:55:25 pm »
Cytat: "Harleqin"


That tournament... will the Arch Lector be allowed?


Edit: Who is Lukasz?  :o


Lukasz is Eddie Blaskowitz from the avatar a few post up...
Head of our Drinking the Danes under the Table Dapartment - couldn't make it to DK though.

One of two Head Honchos in Kraków.
Very nice guy - is always wrong though... ;)

Edit - Yes, Arch Lector will be allowed - to honour Danish contribution to the idea of the tourney.... :D

Cytat: "Lukasz"


And who i am?!
I'm the most fearfull player in Poland!!
I'm a person witch nerev lost any match!!
I'm a Karak A Krak Rik!
I'm one of the Oldest Slann's!
I'm th CHOSEN ONE:)!!


See? Didn't I tell you?

He's always wrong! :lol:

Offline Harleqin

Polish Warhammer Culture and other questions
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Maj 24, 2005, 12:59:41 pm »
YAY  :D

I am almost dancing on the table in joy... though I doubt it can sustain my weight  ;)

Hmm... that would be something like.... jej tancza na stolem.... in Polish?

Hehe... I'm trying to learn. It just goes a little slow  :cry:
aluje, nie mowie po polsku.